Ft. Dix informant: "Nothing was fantasy"

FBI informant Mahmoud Omar said yesterday that he thought the plan to attack Fort Dix was "crazy . . . foolishness," but refused to accept a defense attorney's argument that the plot and other even more outlandish schemes hatched by defendant Mohamad Shnewer were "fantasy."

"Nothing was fantasy about this," Omar, 39, said during his 12th day on the witness stand in federal court in Camden, where Shnewer and four codefendants are being tried on allegations that they plotted a jihad-inspired assault on the South Jersey military base.

Omar conceded the other defendants had been unaware of most of the plots and schemes that he and Shnewer discussed during the 14 months he secretly recorded conversations for the FBI.

But he said he did not agree with defense attorney Michael Riley's argument that the things proposed by Shnewer - such as hijacking a gas tanker in a suicide mission or firing rockets from New Jersey into the Army-Navy game in Philadelphia - "were not based in reality."

"Mohamad was always serious about those things," said Omar, an Egyptian national who spoke through an interpreter.

Riley, the lawyer for defendant Shain Duka, did get Omar to concede his client had not appeared interested in any plots "against the interests of the United States."

But the witness denied Riley's assertion that he had told a friend shortly after the defendants were arrested in May 2007 that the case was "all just talk."

The defense is expected to call the friend, an Egyptian, to the stand later.

Riley was one of four defense lawyers to cross-examine Omar yesterday. The government's key witness is expected to finish testifying today.

Omar conceded several points made by Riley and attorneys for defendants Serdar Tatar and Eljvir Duka yesterday, acknowledging that while Shnewer insisted the others were in on the plot, it often seemed they were not.

Tatar, who gave Omar a map of Fort Dix that he had taken from his father's pizza shop, counseled against violence in several of the conversations recorded by Omar.

And Tatar's lawyer, Richard Sparaco, pointed out that after a business dispute involving the purchase of a car late in 2006, Tatar stopped associating with Omar.

Sparaco pointed to several conversations in which, he alleged, Omar badgered his client for the map and in which Tatar appeared to reject talk of violence and jihad.

"If you do something like that, it's not good," Tatar said in a conversation after Omar hinted at what he and Shnewer had been discussing.

Later, Tatar said, "If something like that happens . . . it's going to be big problems for all the Muslims in this country."

At one point, Omar asked if he were "with us or out?" Tatar replied, "I live here, brother."

Tatar, 25, Shnewer, 24, and brothers Dritan, 29, Shain, 27, and Eljvir Duka, 25, have been charged with conspiring to kill military personnel by launching an attack on Fort Dix. The Dukas and Shnewer also face weapons charges.

The five foreign-born Muslims, who grew up in the Cherry Hill area, could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted of the most serious charge.

Yesterday's session concluded with Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Hammer beginning a redirect examination of Omar.

Among other things, Hammer pointed to tapes in which Shnewer appeared to initiate conversations about violent jihad against America and its allies.

The defense has argued that Omar, who has been paid about $240,000 by the FBI, manipulated Shnewer and the others into a conspiracy they had no intention of carrying out.

Hammer pointed to taped conversations in which Eljvir Duka talked about obtaining a fatwa - Muslim religious approval for an act that might otherwise be prohibited.

And he cited several conversations in which Shnewer discussed violence, including one in which he said he "wanted to put a bullet" in the head of President Bush and another in which he said he wanted to go to Palestine "to kill Jews."