Restaurant Chat: Readers weigh in on Osteria

Good afternoon my hungry friends, and Happy Mardi Gras! You wouldn’t know it, of course, from walking around Philly, where the Creole vibe is weak. But one can channel a few good NOLA flavors if you try hard (as I did in last Sunday’s review of Ted’s), and I’ll go with that theme for #1 of this week’s Crumb Tracker. Guess in order which three places I ate these dishes, and win a signed copy of my book: 1) crawfish-andouille gumbo and shrimp and grits (hint: this place wasn’t mentioned Sunday); 2) lamb risotto; 3) chipotle-chicken pizza with ricotta…Ready, set, start crumbing!

tap, tap, tap.....hello out there? Oh! I'm back! Sorry, folks, we were experiencing a few technical difficulties for the firs 10 minutes of the chat. But we're back in the soup, so....

Okay, let us have it... What did you think of Philadelphia Mags 1 to 50 review?

Robert - as someone who rates restaurants weekly, I know how impossible this task is. And, of course, it was conceived to create chatter. That said, I've always had a fundamental aversion to ranking restaurants by number, from 1 through 50, because diverse restaurants have such different ambitions, and as an eater, I've never been one to say fine dining is better than a great neighborhood bistro. That's why my book has 76 favorites, not a one-through-76 ranking. So that's my preamble. Now to Philly Mag's list. It's filled with good restaurants, restaurants I've praised, but I think 3 is a real stretch for Blackfish, even if it is one of the area's best BYOs. I don't think James or Gilmore's (again, places I've liked) would be in my top ten. Obviously, Philly Mag is making a statement here that newer is better, and that the old line establishments - like Le Bec and Fountain - are no longer as relevant as they once were. I think their relevance has slipped, but.....

....their pure achievement in the art of fine dining merits a higher ranking. I'm ok with Standard Tap being so high, because I think it has had an amazing impact. I was surprised to see Striped Bass so high, though, given that its been on auto-pilot since Christopher Lee left. Also, le Castagne, Sang Kee, the Inn at St. Peter's, Carman's and Honey's might not have made my top 50. Then again, lists like these are created by solely to get us debating, and it's obviously worked.

1) Satchmo's, new sandwich place in Collegeville?

Sorry, Cheesesteak. You're off by about an hour's drive.

Philadelphia Magazine's undertaking of a Top 50 Restaurants ranked 1 -to-50 seemed silly and that was before I even read the ratings. Not only were gems like L'Angelo, Marigold Kitchen and Jakes left out, but there was very little Asian and virtually no South Philly restaurants, Italian or Mexican.

Were you surpised to see Supper that high too?

Don - I agree with your comments. And has anyone here ever been to Han Dynasty? I've never heard of it. Marigold definitely belonged on that list, as did Jake's, which has done it year in and year out at a very high level. As for Supper, I was not surprised to see them on the list, but you'll have to wait until Feb. 17 to see my take.

Speaking of the Philly Mag review... Osteria. I went there for the first time just before Christmas. I'm no Craig LaBan, but I've been around, and eaten around, the world. I am not an expert. But I have to say... I don't get it. I do not understand what all the fuss is about. Our meal was good... Service was good- except for their insistence on seating us, with my cane wielding 80 year old grandmother, all the way in the "greenhouse" when the entire restaurant was empty... But the best restaurant in the history of life? I simply don't get it. We were underwhelmed.

Meghan - As everyone knows, I've been a big fan of Marc Vetri's and Osteria. And you can see my review for the reasons in detail. That said, I receive a surprising amount of mail from people like you, who simply don't get Osteria. I don't know you, Meghan, but I don't get those people. Yes, Osteria is expensive, and the portions are on the small side, but it is such a refreshing expression of authentic and rustic Italian flavors in an accessible space - we simply didn't have anything like it here before. It is quite a different experience from the red gravy palaces of yore, and maybe that's jarring. Or maybe the build up has been too great.

Last time you were listing places that start with M. What about Mercato? The pumpkin fettuccine is a masterpiece.

Dan - I was listing the M restaurants from my book of 76 favorites, and it's true, Mercato wasn't among them. I liked Mercato enough when I reviewed it a few years ago, but its cooking didn't seem distinctive enough for me. Maybe I should return, though? The pumpkin fettuccine sounds intriguing....

So, our favorite Dim Sum and Chinese restraunt, Lakeside Chinese Deli, has closed. A sad day for Philly.

Moe - we talked a little bit about Lakeside a few weeks ago when it closed, but I'd like to direct you to the centerpiece of this Thursday's food section. I got a chance to hook up with the Leungs, Lakeside's former owners, go shopping in Chinatown, reminisce about the restaurant, and cook four dishes from the restaurant for a story in honor of Chinese New Year. Recipes included.

My wife and I are planning to have brunch at LaCroix at the Rittenhouse. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts concerning the brunch? Your comments would be most appreciated. THank you.

Dave - You are a lucky guy, but start fasting now. The LaCroix brunch spectacular has become one of THE signature Philadelphia eating experiences. I was just there for X-Mas day, and it was just fabulous, every little inventive morsel I ate. I'm always amazed at the number of things they managed to produce - it is a challenge simply to eat one of everything (if that's your goal) so don't overload on the early flavors, resist the urge for seconds, and keep eating. Also, the build-your-own Bloody Mary bar is great fun.....

Have you been to Le Virtu? Any thoughts--we thought it a good poor man's Vetri or Osteria in its no red sauce style and vibe.

I've been hearing great things about Le Virtu (my colleague, Rick Nichols, for example, recently wrote a column on his visits...) That said, there are many places in South Philly that go beyond the old red gravy tradition - Mezza Luna, Tre Scalini, Cucina Forte, L'Angolo, Paradiso, Kristian's - that are also worth a visit.

Craig -- you mentioned Christopher Lee, who departed Striped Bass. Do you know where he has gone?

Nancy, last I heard he was executive chef at Gilt in the Palace Hotel in NYC. Ironically, he was replaced for a while by Gilt's ex-chef. But that didn't last long. I honestly have no idea who is cooking now at Striped Bass - maybe I should find out, but it changes too often (not a great sign for a restaurant that needs an identity) - but I had a good report from a fellow parent in the school yard the other day. So the big fish isn't dead yet.

Have you tried Minado in East Norriton - an acceptable sushi buffet, imo. Not refined, but good. Thoughts?

Steve - as a general rule, I tend to avoid sushi buffets because 1) I think raw fish is dicy on a buffet table, and 2) mass-produced sushi always leaves me cold. The fact that you've dined at Minado and have lived to praise it, though, is a positive sign. Should I really try it?

I really like Ostoria, but when they first opened their wine list was simple and affordable – very nice match for the fare. I thought all were good. This past Saturday the wine list was very big and not many moderate priced wines. I selected a super Tuscan for $42 (2004), which was really musty and not in the least exciting. They had a 2006 Altesino Brunello DM – Rosso, for $60. That’s pricey for a Rosso. (LCB is selling for $17.99, and less outside of Pa.). Just couldn’t justify it or other similar selections in that price range. I suppose that's me though, pretty cheap when I start comparing to my home cellar prices.

Mike - I haven't analyzed Osteria's wine list the way you have, but I wanted to make a couple points. Firstly, Vetri and crew have always been a good source for mining great Italian wines I've never heard of previously - like an Argiolas white I wrote about earlier this year, or the Armecolo I wrote about a few years ago. Great finds and reasonably priced! That said, Vetri's never been shy about wine mark-ups. Nor has any PA restaurateur with a liquor license. I'd say a 3X-plus mark-up has become common, especially on less-expensive wines. I'm not defending it at all, and it's certainly one of the reasons the BYOs have flourished.

Craig, I was VERY VERY skeptical about going to a sushi buffet. I won't go to a Chinese buffet, simply won't go. But after hearing repeated praise by discerning diners, I went. The sushi quality is suprisingly good. I'm not a huge sushi guy but I found more than enough to eat. And really good sashimi as well. Give it a try, I think it will pass your buffet test.

OK, now that two separate chatters have praised Minado, we're nearly hitting a trend (that would be three independent examples!). I may have to try it......

So - I live right near there, and go to Sushikazu and Bluefin. They certainly don't have the specials or the details of either of those - but, provide a GREAT starting point for folks who want to A. grow gills by consuming as much sushi as possible for $28 or B. folks who want to try sushi, but aren't sure what they'd like. They turn over product really well from what i've seen. I also take advantage of their made-to-order hibachi grill. I'm not heaping praise, per se - but given the buses of Asians who pack the joint on the weekends makes it worthy of a visit. Again, IMO.

Ok, guys. There are plenty of new sit-down sushi places I'm going to need to try - including the new one, Misso, from the old owner of Sushikazu, who replaced Miraku. But I have a limitless appetite for good sushi. I"m sure I'll buffet it before long....

I read a fe weeks ago that you like Capital Grille for steaks. But, I understand that they do not serve USDA Prime cuts, they serve Choice. Do you know if this is true, and if so, how can a "top-notch" steakhouse do this?

Ray - this is true about Capital Grille, unless something has changed since my visit. But it points to an interesting discussion. Prime grade meat has become so unaffordable that very few places really carry it. In addition, I've often found that dry-aged choice steaks (or at least high-grade Angus, which can often be better meat than USDA prime) tastes far better than the plastic-packed "wet aged" prime meat you'll find at many of the high-end chains. Again, it all comes down to cooking and handling and consistency, and Capital Grille has a track record most chains would moo for.

All this talk about Osteria worries me as I am going next week!

Decker - what are you worried about? I stand by my 3 bell review and my own assessment that Osteria was the best overall restaurant I ate at in 2007. Yes, it is expensive. The portions aren't huge. And it may not, in fact, be the greatest restaurant ever invented. But it's certainly worth a visit, so you can have a chance to find out what it's about. Trust your own tastes, and not the chatter.

Decker--If I may weigh in on Osteria--don't hesitate. had two excellent diners there and a snack at the bar. Order a pizza and a pasta for sure.

For everyone out there praising Minado head south into Chestnut Hill and try a real Sushi experience at Osaka- for the same price as the buffet at Minado you can sample an excellent Chef's assortment- imo, one of the best places to eat in Chestnut Hill; in an area deviod of much outside of the pub/ bistro fare that has unfortunately come to define this area. Craig, you recently reviewed one of the few others (Shundeez)- is it fair to say Chestnut Hill is "too bland for its own good"?

Jon - I'm glad to hear Osaka is still doing well, but I don't recall it being as inexpensive as an all-u-can-eat buffet. If Minado is, in fact, that good, it will be worth a look. I am curious, though, Chestnut Hiller Jon, how is the new Japanese place, Hokka Hokka (sp?) lower on the hill? Also, you folks are lucky that Mt. Airy is about to get a brewpub from one my favorite brewers, Tom Baker, formerly of Heavyweight in South Jersey, is building something (I've heard talk of wood-fired flatbreads) next to McMennamin's.....

a few guesses....1) bourbon blue 2)meritage and 3) peace-a pizza ?

Jamie - you got the second one right, but that's it. I had a chance to visit Meritage for the first time since the ownership change about 18 months ago. It was restaurant week and we ate both on and off the special menu. Overall, it was ok, but not as special as it used to be. A couple of things off the Restaurant Week menu were nearly cold - the salmon and the bread pudding. I enjoyed the duck confit appetizer, which may be among the best duck confits in the city. I also liked the lamb risotto, but for what was essentially lamb stew mixed into a heaty pile of rice, I thought $29 was a very, very steep price.

On that note, I'm going to call this chat cooked, technical glitches and all. I'm suddenly in the mood for a sushi buffet, which I don't think would have happened before today's talk - so a couple of you are on the hook (I'm typing at you, steve). You'll be hearing back from me on this, and I hope I'm happy. Until next week, then,, may you all be well, have a great Mardi Gras, and eat something worth bragging about!