Former CIA counterintelligence leader talks about Trump’s new world order during a Pa. visit
James M. Olson, a former CIA counterintelligence director, sees threats to U.S. economy and world peace.
James M. Olson, former CIA chief of counterintelligence who later set up intelligence studies at Texas A&M’s Bush School of Government and Public Service, stopped by the Inn at Villanova to talk to friends and customers of Christopher Annas’ Meridian Bank on Feb. 27. The bank gave out copies of Olson’s 2021 book To Catch a Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence.
Before the event, Olson, 83, agreed to talk to The Inquirer about economic and strategic issues amid what he calls “radical” changes by the new Trump administration. The interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.
President Donald Trump talks about bringing back U.S. steel mills, shipyards, and other heavy industry despite the lack of interest from U.S. investors and workers. Why is Trump pushing in this direction?
We need our industries back. President Trump feels that way, and he has a whole toolbox of incentives. I think we will see some progress here. Redirecting the military acquisition process is smart. Our Navy aircraft carriers are done. They are too vulnerable. Too much expense, too many people in one target.
We are going to mobile, faster, smaller task forces, using seaborne missiles. Drones are a big part of the future in intelligence as well as the military. Our satellite fleet is aging. A drone can get better pictures, more safely, at lower cost.
The EU ambassador said recently in Philadelphia that Europe is united in support of Ukraine and the “existential threat” of Russia led by Vladimir Putin. Why is the Trump administration aligning more with Putin?
This is not business as usual. There has been a radical transformation of U.S. security policy. Any resemblance with Biden’s foreign policy is coincidental.
Trump is very money-conscious. By stepping back from Europe, Trump sees big savings.
Some of our actions are forcing more unity. They may have to unite and go without the support they had from the United States in the past. NATO is in jeopardy. I regret that. We can’t turn our back on Europe. They are very apprehensive.
Ukraine has reinforced the whole concept that there is a threat from the East. The Europeans have to work together to stay strong and be realistic about the threat. It’s time for European countries to step up.
[After the Feb. 28 confrontation between Trump, Vice President JD Vance and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Olson gave this update: “I was appalled. I think it was bullying. I felt sorry for Zelensky. His country has suffered so much. He deserved better. ... I don’t quibble with Trump’s position that we need more security guarantees, maybe in collaboration with the Europeans, some peacekeepers on the ground. But Zelensky deserved respect. I hope we can salvage this.”]
Can there be a lasting peace between Russia and Ukraine?
We have to do business while holding our nose. We cannot have an agreement without having a dialogue between Trump and Putin.
I believe the elements of a negotiated peace settlement are there. Both sides want to stop the killing. The Russians lost far more people in three years in Ukraine than in 10 years in Afghanistan. And there is resistance [in Russia] to Putin. He can’t ignore that. They need to rejoin the community of nations. Zelensky also has a real stake in ending the slaughter of his people and rebuilding the country.
I can see a package in which Russia will keep some of the Russian-speaking territory in eastern Ukraine. Putin has to save face. He cannot be that long in the war and end with nothing. And he gets Crimea.
Zelensky gets a guarantee to see the country rebuilt. NATO is off the table — Zelensky will resist that, but we can give him security guarantees.
Is the Trump administration backing out of Europe to focus on threats from China?
There is no doubt in my mind or in the minds of people in intelligence that China is the number-one threat. If I were starting my career today, I would learn Mandarin. The action is in China.
Do you see signs that tighter Communist control is hurting the Chinese economy?
I don’t see any slowing in their espionage. I don’t see any retraction in their overriding view of supplanting American leadership: economic, digital, political, military.
What I see as a counterintelligence officer is a massive assault. The Russians were a subversion threat, an espionage threat. The Chinese are several magnitudes above that. They are coming at us from every direction.
We are not prepared enough. We disbanded the China initiative at the FBI because we were ethnically profiling Chinese. But we cannot ignore that the Chinese intelligence services are targeting ethnic Chinese Americans. That’s not our doing.
You were CIA station chief in Mexico. How can the U.S. fight drug cartels there?
I believe we have enough economic and trade levers over Mexico that we can twist to get more cooperation. I think the signs are good that we can work together more closely. We need Mexico to help us with immigration on their side of the border and to do a better job going after traffickers. The cartels are running wild.
Palantir CEO Alexander C. Karp, a Philly native, in ‘The Technological Republic’ complains that young Americans don’t want to serve the government or military. Is he right?
There had been a turn-away from the government for young people. The desire to serve our country in the Cold War was like a crusade. We felt we were doing something noble in fighting this existential threat of communism. That’s why I joined up.
It was a difficult career. I lost a lot of classmates [in Afghanistan and the Middle East]. We have too many stars on our Wall of Honor.
But now we are getting a lot of really high-quality young men and women who come to us. They want to be spies. I think there has been a shift toward a little more patriotism on the part of the young. We’ve got more applicants than we can handle.