‘If you watch it or you read it, we all need it.’ How two local podcasters of color are changing the anime and manga industries

Matt Portter and Trav Valentine met either by accident or because the anime gods willed it to be.

When Valentine’s previous podcast Ramen Noodles ‘N Grits needed a guest, he reached out to his friend Jordan Aris. Prior to the recording, Aris’ car broke down, and he called Portter for a ride to the recording space. Then, as the stars continued to align, the podcast’s cohost called out sick and there was an open mic for the episode.

Portter agreed to hop on.

“After that episode people were like, ‘Have you guys recorded before?’ Nah, this is the first time we’ve met, period,” Valentine said.

It was that easy connection and immediate chemistry that ultimately led to the pair working together on their first podcast, EiTHER, where they aimed to “address the elephant in the room.”

But Valentine and Portter had a deep shared interest: anime.

Their new podcast DB4L, which stands for Dragon Ball 4 Life (find them on Spotify under that title), kicked off earlier this year with the support of Fandom Spotlite, a YouTube channel and website dedicated to making fandoms and conventions more accessible.

Fandom Spotlite’s founder Kyle Williamson, who is nicknamed Captain Kyle, said it was their enthusiasm that made him want to work with Portter and Valentine. Captain Kyle said he also likes helping the underdog, and manga tends to not get as much exposure as an animated series.

“When Captain Kyle wanted to start a podcast network, I pitched an idea I had and then called Trav and was like, ‘I already said we would do it’,” Portter said. Captain Kyle, who had previously hired Portter as a writer, supported the endeavor.

The idea Portter had was to create a podcast where the two could have “barbershop talk” about the Dragon Ball Super manga, while also making it as accessible as possible to folks that wouldn’t typically care about manga.

DB4L’s content is focused on discussing the Dragon Ball Super manga chapters, which can be compared to the length of a comic book. The last chapter that came out was number 85, and DB4L just covered chapters 66 and 67, along with a review of the new Dragon Ball Super movie, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero.

The pair brought on Mikey Campbell as a producer, whom they joke they “found on the side of the road.” (In a tender moment, Campbell and Portter say that they are “kindred spirits” and can talk on the phone about anime and manga until the wee hours of the morning.)

Once Campbell taught himself all of the programs he needed to know in order to produce this podcast, they set off on launching DB4L.

The guys created DB4L not just as an attempt to squash the beef between the manga and anime fandoms, but to create a space that bridges the gap between new and old fans, and to show that there is no more “cool kids table” when it comes to the anime and manga communities.

The beef, which can be compared to drama within the Harry Potter and Twilight fandoms, exists because fans are often up in arms about the anime and manga not perfectly matching.

“We felt confident that we could have an opinion here and it would be validated, because we can most definitely back it up.”

While there are simulcasts, which is when the anime and manga are extremely close in content, there are often times when the two diverge. “Sometimes Dragon Ball will change story lines,” Campbell said. “So if you’re only doing one, you’re shortchanging yourself.”

Dragon Ball Super anime hasn’t had content come out in some time, but the manga does often release new stories that DB4L covers on the podcast. DB4L is analytical in its breakdowns of the chapters, but they want it to feel like someone is sitting in a room talking to them.

“We consider ourselves original anime fans,” Portter said. “We were on the bandwagon when it wasn’t cool, when you were laughed at for Naruto running in the hallway … We felt confident that we could have an opinion here and it would be validated, because we can most definitely back it up.”

When they were growing up, anime was being heavily marketed as kids cartoons on networks such as Toonami and Cartoon Network, where Valentine discovered anime. “It wasn’t the obscure anime that was drawing us in,” he said.

Still, all three of the guys can recall being ashamed of their love of anime in school, telling their schoolmates that they were looking at sports when they were at risk of being caught looking at anime or manga.

“I watched Dragon Ball as a kid and this is a big part of what we do as a podcast,” Campbell said. “We try to break down the walls and the stigma of anime, but I very much felt like I couldn’t talk about it with my friends.”

While it may not seem like it to a child in school, there are worse things than being called a nerd. For children of color, having the nerd label slapped onto their brown skin is reason enough to hide those interests.

In recent years, reports have shown that 1.6 million students were bullied for their identity. Half of these incidents targeted race.

To make matters worse, the children and adults of color that are looking to enjoy the manga and anime mediums are met with very few instances of representation of their race.

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“For me, I don’t think there’s anywhere near the amount of representation for minorities in the anime and manga world,” Portter said. “It’s to the point where there’s kind of like an underlying, not racism, but non-inclusivity.”

Kaily Rockshead, who is a Black anime fan, agrees that there is not a lot of Black and brown representation in anime, and it was exciting for them to see characters like Brock from Pokémon, who ended up being whitewashed, and Canary from Hunter x Hunter.

“Being a person of color in the anime community is definitely interesting,” Rockshead said. “I would say that in anime, you don’t really see a lot of POC in general … There is a huge Black anime community and it’s really interesting to see, especially with stuff like cosplay, how they put their own spin on it.”

The lack of inclusivity doesn’t end in the manga and anime — it seeps into the industry of workers behind the content.

DB4L’s Executive Producer Yali Perez says she had to work in the industry for free for three years before she was able to find stable employment. Now, she works at Crunchyroll writing features such as her series titled “A Mom’s Guide to Anime,” which helps parents use anime to get through different scenarios in their children’s lives.

Perez has been in the industry for years, and has noticed that the representation is especially lacking in positions of power.

“Part of my job is to know the ins and outs and the sad part about it is that there is no one at Crunchyroll [that I have interacted with] in top positions that are people of color,” Perez said.

Valentine agrees that when it comes to minorities in the industry, he mainly sees them covering gaming and on Twitch.

“For this specific niche market that we’re trying to target, I don’t think we’ve seen too many minorities in the field,” Valentine said. “And pretty much all of my minority friends watch anime.”

When there are few folks that look like you, it’s easy to feel like there isn’t space for you. A main goal of the podcast, according to Portter, is for them to be a voice for the voiceless, and to spearhead people of color working in the anime and manga industries.

“Pretty much all of my minority friends watch anime.”

“We’re getting there, there’s still so much work to be done, and I feel like that’s why we’re doing this. ‘Hey, we can do this too,’” Portter said.

That, Perez said, is exactly what she loves about the work the DB4L guys are doing. “Letting people know that people like them exist and there is a place for them, it just takes work.”

In their endeavor to end the divide between manga and anime lovers, Portter and Valentine, with the production help of Campbell, created an extremely Philly podcast that will appeal to anyone that is looking for a new parasocial best friend group.

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“I’m very proud of how hard they’ve worked to make this their version of success, and make it very Philly,” Perez said. “I think part of the goal was just to have something that was funny but then when the real mission became what it was, their level of dedication was upped.”

The DB4L guys would like to shout out:

Captain Kyle, Fandom Spotlite (3x), Bleach, Jordan, Hood, Skyler, Craig of the Creek, Riot Nerd, and YALI PEREZ.

Yes, they want to acknowledge Fandom Spotlite three times. And yes, it is of the utmost importance that Yali Perez is in all caps.

This story has been updated to amend a quote.